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Constructive Aggression? Multiple Roles of Aggressive Content in Political Discourse on Russian YouTube
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In: Media and Communication ; 9 ; 1 ; 181-194 ; Dark Participation in Online Communication: The World of the Wicked Web (2022)
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Rückzug als Widerstand: Dissidente Lebensformen in der globalen Politik
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In: 88 ; Edition Politik ; 222 (2022)
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Haptic performativity: exploring the force of bodies and the limits of linguistic action in silent protests
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Through the Eyes of Justice: Constitutionally Protected Speech and Protest According to Justice Antonin Scalia
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In: Masters Theses (2021)
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Incivility and Political Dissent: Multiple roles of aggressive speech in comments on Russian YouTube
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In: Proceedings of the Weizenbaum Conference 2021 ; 4 ; Weizenbaum Conference 2021: Democracy in Flux – Order, Dynamics and Voices in Digital Public Spheres ; 3 (2021)
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Protest twittern: Eine medienlinguistische Untersuchung von Straßenprotesten
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Dang-Anh, Mark. - : transcript Verlag, 2021. : DEU, 2021. : Bielefeld, 2021
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In: 22 ; Locating Media / Situierte Medien ; 448 (2021)
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Interview of Marc Steiner
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Abstract:
President and Executive Producer of the Center for Emerging Media and host of The Marc Steiner Show, Marc Steiner, talks about life experiences that have shaped his perspective on race and influenced his life's work. He particularly talks about his first experience with seeing racism as a young child, being the only white scout member in an all-Black scout troop, and how this influenced his future work with both the Civil Rights movement and Black Lives Matter. He then goes on to talk about the mission and work of the Center for Emerging Media and the importance of community in delivering their own narratives. Marc also extensively discusses media coverage between the Civil Rights movement and Black Lives Matter and how social media has altered one's relationship to the movements. ; This interview was conducted during the 2021 Interdisciplinary CoLab as part of the project, From the Civil Rights Movement to Black Lives Matter: Oral Histories of the Lived Experience in Baltimore. Transcript is edited. ; From the Civil Rights Movement to Black Lives Matter: Oral Histories of the Lived Experience in Baltimore Date: 7 June 2021 Location: Online via Webex programming Interviewer: Deysi Chitic-Amaya Transcription: Lorra Toler Interviewee: Marc Steiner Length: 01:18:03 Deysi Chitic-Amaya (DCA): Hello, this is Deysi Chitic-Amaya from University of Maryland Baltimore County’s Summer Colab Project, “From the Civil Rights Movement to Black Lives Matter: Oral Histories of the Lived Experience in Baltimore”. Today is June eighth, 2021 and I will be interviewing Marc Steiner. Marc Steiner is the host of The Marc Steiner Show, a radio now podcast show which has been on the air for twenty-eight years as of the date of this recording. He has previously worked for radio stations such as WYPR and its predecessor WJHU before operating his own production company, the Center for Emerging Media, which, since its inception, has produced a wide variety of media content including the Peabody award-winning series Just Words which features the voices and stories of working people in Baltimore who are often relegated to statistics and not given a platform to speak. The mission of the Center for Emerging Media and all of Marc’s projects is to employ media that produces unique programs that addresses issues that affect our world, often issues that individuals may find difficult to talk about or are not regularly given a platform in mainstream media and news. Today, Marc continues that mission with his current work on a video documentary series called, “The Alabama Chronicles”, which features Dr. Martin Luther King’s Montgomery, Alabama barber and other key players in the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Marc, thank you for joining us today. Marc Steiner (MS): My pleasure to be here. DCA: Okay. So, how did you emerge as a radio talk show host? MS: Out of a cocoon. No, I, getting on the radio for me was an accident. I mean, it didn't, was not part of my plan. It just kind of happened. I had gone, this is how it happened. So I went to the dentist, and sitting in the dentist waiting room was the general manager of WJHU who’s a friend of mine, Dennis Keeta, because a few years earlier I had worked to produce a series out of that station in the late nineties, late eighties, called the history of Jewish music. And then for a number of reasons, I left the place in good stead. And he said to me, “We're thinking about starting a public affairs radio show. And we know you know the city so well, from the street corners to the corporate boardrooms, what do you think?” and I said, for some reason, what came out of my mouth was, “Well, I should be the host.” And he said, “But you’ve never done radio,” and I said, “Well, that's true. But what difference does that make? I can learn radio,” and so I didn't let it go after that. And then so one day he just said, “Okay, Marc, here we go. Every Tuesday and Thursday night, seven o'clock, after All Things Considered,” no, “Every Tuesday night, after All Things Considered at seven o'clock. This is your studio, this is your microphone, this is your desk. Good luck.” And so that's how it started. And then folks started helping me produce it and it just developed from there. A student from Hopkins, his name is Roger Sorkin, who’s now a filmmaker, wrote to me saying that he was graduating and that his parents would pay his salary for a year, and could he work for me. So he became my first producer. And we moved from Tuesdays and Thursdays to Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And then in 1995, we moved to five days a week, two hours a day. So it was absolutely, it happened on accident, but I'm glad it happened. DCA: Awesome. And then like, I guess what were the kind of stories that you covered as you did this radio show, like what was the first radio show you did when you first started working? Sorry. MS: That's cool. The very first show was a debate between four women on Norplant. And Norplant, I don’t know if you all know what Norplant was, but Norplant was a contraceptive device they would put into, under the skin of women, so they wouldn't get pregnant. And it was highly controversial because it was being used only on poor women of color, poor black women in the city. And so there was a huge uproar around it. And so we had this raging debate for an hour and a half. The first shows were an hour and a half long. So it was a huge raging debate on that, and that's where it began, that was the first show. But then after that, I mean, I covered, I mean I've always been involved in community affairs, I've always been fighting against racism in this country since I was a kid. And so that, and the community rights, and also interviewing authors and ideas, it became, you know, a plethora of things. But so things that I cared about is what I brought to the airwaves. I was just lucky that everybody, like, also cared about them, or wanted to care about them or learned about them. So it worked. At least it seems to work too. DCA: That's really awesome. And then was there like, I guess anything from your life prior that, like, influenced the work? Because, like, it's clear that when you went into radio, like, you already had this, like, this idea that you wanted to, like, these stories you wanted to tell, these people you wanted to amplify your voices? Was there anything from your life beforehand that, like, gave you this drive? MS: Well, I think there's a couple things. I mean, I had a fairly eclectic existence professionally. And so you know, I was involved in theater, I was a community organizer, I’d been a union organizer, I’d been a therapist, and all mostly in poor working class communities where I worked. And so that was what the point of view I brought with me, it was like, one of the most important things to me was having a program where the voices that are not heard are now heard. Doesn't mean you cancel out the folks that you’d usually hear the, you know, the leading politicians and the business leaders and all the rest, academic leaders, but it's bringing in the voices of others. It was for me, you know, let me give us an example. I mean, it was bringing people into discussions that people would not ordinarily do. In other words, you can, whenever you talk about civil rights or races, is when you bring black folks on your show, that's what people do. So my idea was to really change all that up. To do that, but also, no matter what we're talking about, to ensure that women and people of color are part of that discussion. That was a huge motivating factor for me to do the work. And so what that meant was, if I was going to do a program on cosmology, or on astrophysics, let's say, which we did a bunch, because I did a whole series with Hubble, on the work that their space telescope, I made sure that they're always women, astrophysicists, and astronomers and black folks who were nuclear physicists, were on that show, so that the voices were heard, and you create a new sense of what is possible and what people hear. That way people hear and see is what gives them the perceptions, what's around them. And so to me, that was to work at changing that. And so that became a big part of it. And, you know, everything I've worked in, I brought to the show, I mean, I spent years working in prisons and programs that were alternatives to people being incarcerated, and we brought that to the airwaves and brought those voices to the airwaves, things like that. And so I tried to really mix it up and create something that gave you a sense of a larger community, and not just the same narrow thing most people do in their radio shows. DCA: That's great. And then, you mentioned about amplifying the voices of others. So what does it mean to be an ally to communities involved in the Civil Rights Movement and Black Lives Matter? MS: Interesting question. I, first of all, the word ally is part of the nomenclature for the last ten years, not one that we used coming up, but for me, you can use the word ally, you can also use the word solidarity, you can use the word, there's a lot of ways you can describe it. But, I was, alright, so when I was a kid, I was a civil rights worker. So I'm seventy-five now and when I, let me take it way back. So when I was eleven in 1957, remember this is Baltimore 1957, Baltimore was a legally segregated city. The black and white neighborhoods were just that, black and white neighborhoods, and they were legally segregated. I came from a pretty middle class home. And as a lot of people in the neighborhood, they had domestics working in their house, or a woman worked in the house. And so that was the case in our home as well. And her name is Mrs. Moselle Jackson, this is important to the story. This is what happened. This changed the whole nature of my existence because at eleven-years-old, I wanted to be a Boy Scout more than anything in the world, all I wanted to do was be a Boy Scout. You know, my uncle from England sent me the original Handbook, I read it. I was out of my mind reading it, I was like I gotta go be a Boy Scout, I got to go camping, I got to do this. So one day, my mother was sitting at the kitchen table with Mrs. Jackson and Mr. Dennis Foster, her nephew, came to pick her up as usual, he was sitting at the table. They're all having coffee and cake and talking. And I came downstairs saying, I’ve got to join the Boy Scouts. You know, I'm eleven. I’ll be eleven next week, I’ve got to join. And so I guess I was ten, almost eleven. And my mother said, oh, and my mother’s a Brit, was British, so she had this English accent. And she said, “Alright, love. I’ll sign you up straightaway, Monday morning, Beth Tfiloh,” which was the synagogue. And I said, “But Mom, I don't want to be in a troop of all Jewish kids,” because I had this mythology in my head about, you know, that Boy Scouts were about all kinds of guys, little boys, getting together. And so Mr. Foster said, “I'm a Scoutmaster, you can join my troop.” So my mother knew exactly what was going on at that moment. And she looked at him and she looked at me, I'll never forget it, and she said, “Oh, that's a lovely idea.” And so that Monday, Mr. Foster comes by and picks me up and drives me to his scout troop, and so we went from the northwest side on Forest Park, all the way down North Avenue, making a right on Broadway, down Ashland Avenue. And there I was at the Faith Baptist Church. And it was an integrated troop because I integrated the troop. And so that was the beginning of a huge lesson for me about race and class that changed the course of my existence while I was a kid, and for the rest of my life. And it's where I first confronted racism at the Boy Scout camp. That summer, I was eleven-years-old and it was one of those things where I was walking down to get my merit badge in swimming, and I think in canoeing, one of those two things, and we were the only black troop there. And a Boy Scout from another troop was leaning over a fence post on my way down to go swimming and he said, “Where's your trooper?” I pointed to the grove we were camped in, and he said, “What are you doing in a troop with all them N’s?” And I was devastated that a Boy Scout would use that word. I was a kid. I was a little boy. I didn't know, you know. And so that began changing things for me. I mean, everything began to kind of unfold in terms of the contradictions in our society. I remember, as a little boy, we were driving from the Boy Scout meeting and a whole bunch of guys in his car, and they stopped at this donut shop on Broadway, and everybody piled out of the car, and I sat there. And the Scoutmaster, Mr. Dennis Foster came over and said, “Come on, Marc.” And I said “No, I’ll sit here. I’ll wait.” He said, “No, no, no, you don’t understand. Wherever we can go, you can go.” And I knew that wherever I could go, he couldn't go. So all these things sort of happening to me as a kid, and it began to change the nature of how I looked at the world and, you know, being ostracized in my community, because I was in an all black troop, and I had these guys come over to visit me at the house and spend the night and that was a no go for a lot of guys in my neighborhood, you know. And then at thirteen-years-old, almost fourteen, I walked my first picket line at Mondawmin Shopping Center at the White Coffee Pot. And that's when I started working in the Civil Rights Movement. So that was like, for me that was, as a little boy, all these things had happened, and I won't go on and on, but the police thing can happen and they were kind of earth shaking and changed the nature of my perceptions of the world. And they never stopped. But that's where it began. DCA: Wow that's, yeah, that's incredible. Going off that similar, like, how do you define and enact good allyship? MS: So I suppose that’s what you asked in the first place, I'm sorry I digress too much. So, okay, to me, there's a lot of ways to look at that question. So if you start with the assumption that one of the most defining factors in America is racism and race, which it is, it's divided union movements, class struggles, all kinds of things in our country, besides being a completely repressive and oppressive regime for hundreds of years for black folks in America, and other people of color as well. So, I think part of that, to me, is you always have to stand up to it. If it happens in the course of your daily work, if it happens in the course of your family, if it happens wherever it does, you've got to stand up and speak up and say something. You don't just let it happen. And I think it also means that, you know, this is, I'm just preparing now for an interview with Hy Thurman, who's an old friend of mine who is a part of a group called the Young Patriots, who were members, some of them used to be members of the Klan, and the Ku Klux Klan. And they live in a neighborhood called uptown Chicago. And they formed the first Rainbow Coalition back in 1967, ’68, with the Black Panthers, the Young Lords, who were Puerto Ricans, and the Brown Berets, who were Mexican Americans, and the American Indian Movement in Chicago. And so, building these cross racial coalitions to fight for justice is something that's been going on in my life for forever. And to me, that to me is as, I mean, when people say ally, sometimes the system that it’s in support of, black movements and against racism, and that is critical, but it's got to be more than that. You have to, from my perspective, be willing to organize in diverse communities and other communities in your own community, to build those kinds of coalition's to make that happen. I think that that is, that to me is key to it. So that's why I've never really in my own life never really used the word ally just because it's not in my nomenclatures, not where I come from. I'm more, I mean, I think about how you organize and fight racism, and how you organize and fight for economic and social justice in this country, and how you always confront racism everytime you see it, every time you hear it. And as someone who grew up as an organizer in the sixties and early seventies, organizing in mostly white working class communities. That to me is a critical part of what you do, if you really want to change things, building these coalitions. I don’t know if that answers your question, but that's, I'm happy to probe it more, if you’d like. DCA: No, I think you answered it just fine. It's just very interesting throughout doing, like, a few of these interviews, just, like, hearing everyone's, like, perspective and relationship with these words, which is something that, like, we don't think about a lot our own relationship with, like, what do words mean, and what do they mean to us? So I think it's really important. So thank you for your answer to that. Bringing it back to your work with radio as well as media, why do you think it is important for journalists and media to cover social injustice in communities such as Baltimore? MS: Why it’s important for media to do so, is that what you said? Why it’s important for media to do that? DCA: For journalists and media, yes. MS: Well you see, first of all, you got to think about what is journalism? I mean, what is, that to me is, journalism is kind of morphing and changing over the years. And so growing up, you know, there were, for me, there were three stations on television. ABC, CBS and NBC. That was it. Those three. Then PBS came along a little later, then Fox, the forty-five stuff came in even later. But there were three major stations and the idea of media was, whether it was print or TV or radio, was that it was supposed to be objective journalism. And so, but what does that mean? I mean, objective, I think objective is a really difficult thing to get to. Because we live very subjective lives, in terms of how we feel and see things. And then you got to remember that almost all the hosts, almost everybody on camera, and behind the mic, and radio, were white men, unless you were in the black media, then they were mostly black men, and some women, but mostly black men. And so, even in Baltimore the radio stations, while they are still segregated in some ways, still very segregated. I mean you had WSID and WEAA. There were just a few black stations, you know, that were on the air, mostly other stuff was white. So, but you looked at journalists who were supposed to be objective, but never really was. And I think that the ensuing movements in the Civil Rights Movement, Anti-War Movement, other things were happening, change that began to change the nature of media itself. So that now we have media which is, in some ways, really partisan. And so media is always a changing landscape. And I think that, for me, the important role that media plays is one that exposes the contradictions, that exposes the inequities. But just more than that, it's helping the world find solutions, to create the discussions that allow people to find the solutions to what we face. You know, and I made no bones about where I stood the whole time I was on radio. I couldn't hide who I was, I wasn't gonna hide who I was, but I also began to realize that even in the places that I might oppose politically, that the truth lives in every corner. There's truth in every corner. That no one has the lock on it. And the media's job is to hear it, and to listen to it, and then to bring it into play and into dialogue with the other. And I think that that's important. I mean, I think that, you know, you might hear, I could give an example, I hope this connects. Back in the late, in the sixties, this actually happened in the spring of sixty-eight. I was in a meeting in Chicago with the Young Patriots, which was the Appalachian white group of guys who came out of a gang in Chicago that worked with the Panthers, you know, the Lord's, that I described earlier. And there was a meeting taking place in Uptown, which was the poor white neighborhood. And the Black Panthers were there talking to this group of mostly poor white folks. And they talked about police brutality, which was affecting both communities. And Bobby Lee from the Panthers said, you know, “We have to stand and march to the police station together, and we have to stand and fight these cops, we can't allow this brutality to go on.” And an older white guy jumps up out of the back with this deep Southern accent, And he says, literally, he jumped up and said, “Well if that's what them N’s said, then I'm walking with them.” And everybody stopped, he said “What?” Because he used the word you know? And then Bobby Lee and the other Panther over there went over to him, put their arms around him and said, “That's right, brother, we're marching together.” And one of the things that came out of that was that that affected this man's attitude about race and racism and what he said and how he said it and what he had thought, that it was common struggle. And I say that because, to me, that's where the truth is in every corner. You have to listen and not put your own thoughts and feelings sometimes into what you hear. You got to really hear what the other person has to say. Listening is key to making media work. And not just spouting but listening, and that's how you begin to change people's hearts and minds, if you're willing to listen, and then you build on that listening. And so to me, that has been kind of what I really learned the most. And I think I picked that up. And I really learned that in media because when I first started out in radio, I did some work for the John Hopkins Center for American Indian Health, and I went to a couple of reservations, and there was one meeting, and there was this guy who was Cherokee, he was like a holy man and a writer and a thinker, and he's the one who brought that to light for me. They asked everybody in the room, what is communication? And everybody had answers, long answers, what communication is between people. And then he said one word, and the word was listening. Communication is listening. So to me that is the root and the bottom line for how you approach your media work is to listen, and to understand. That you've got to hear what people are saying, and let it be said, and then deal with it. Right? So I think media plays a critical role. I mean, I think you've got to let the voices be heard, which is why we produce Just Words, which is why we produced the other things we produced was to have the voices of the people themselves be heard. And I think that that, to me, is something most media doesn't do. They'd rather have people talk for other people, as opposed to having people talk for themselves. And that's what I've just tried to do in the work that I've done, not always successfully, I try. DCA: That's awesome. So you previously said that events like the Civil Rights Movement and the Anti-War Movement that changed media, but are there, like, other ways that, like, journalism and media coverage has, like, changed in the coverage of, like, such issues through the years? MS: Well, yeah, I think so. I mean I think, you know, back in the fifties and sixties with a guy named Edward R. Murrow, who was a great investigative reporter. And, to me, the critical role of media and the best people in it, and journalists in it and reporters in it, go underneath stuff to speak truth to power, that's what you have to do. One of the things about media is you cannot, this is the only media that’s successful to me, is the media that does not put people who are political leaders on a pedestal. You don't put them up there. You look them in the eye. And they're on your level and you push them, you have to come up, your job is to fight for the truth, your job is to get the truth out there And I think that's always been the media's role, but I think we've lost a lot of that now, because now everything is, we are more divided politically, and some ways and racially, in our country than we ever have been. Especially politically, we're really divided and media, rather than bringing that together, has become partisan itself. You know, I mean, and that's a real problem. I think that's a real, real problem. But it is what it is. I mean, that's what we are, I mean, I think that media doesn't, people go into media for a couple of reasons. One is because you want to be a personality on television, make a lot of money, and look cute. The other is to actually do the work, whether it's in television or print or wherever else, you know, and I think that part of the problem with media is that, today, is that it’s also a conglomeration of media, that media is owned by fewer and fewer people. You know, The Baltimore Sun, there’s been another newspaper called The Baltimore News-American, and The Afro American, were three newspapers in Baltimore. They were all owned by people in Baltimore. Nothing is owned by people in Baltimore anymore. It’s owned by somebody else. It’s owned by a corporation, a conglomerate. And when that happens, it becomes the corporatization of media, and then real journalism gets hurt. And I think we're facing a dilemma like in other parts of our society. Media, you know, some people in media play an incredibly important role and they do great work, but I think the partisan part of media is really hurting it. And there’s nothing wrong with partisan media. I mean, I put out, I worked in this thing that’s called The Washington Free Press back in the late sixties, and we put out a newspaper here in Baltimore called The South Baltimore Voice when we were organizing in South Baltimore. So I mean, there's a role for that. But now it's become universal. DCA: And so, through your own work with the Center for Emerging Media, as well as all your, like, various projects, where's the connection between what you aspire to achieve and what your brand does? MS: What do you mean? DCA: Um. MS: I mean, are you asking what the difference is between what we wanted to get done and what we actually do? Or is that? DCA: I believe so? Yes. MS: Okay, well look, it's a, I started the Center for Emerging Media, because it was the only way to begin to do the work I wanted to do on my own. And it's still there. It's a nonprofit media group. And the thing is, you know, it's hard to do the work without the money. So part of what running a place like the Center for Emerging Media is raising money, is raising the money from people who support your work individually, is raising money from foundations, raising from foundations, is doing cooperative work with other institutions, so you can actually get the work done. And we actually started it, because of a series on the Vietnam War that we did, and had to get our own funding, which we did. And ended up doing a six part series in Vietnam, with veterans of the war from all sides. And then we did Just Words and a number of other projects. So now, I mean, I think that where I'm going with the Center for Emerging Media, now, has been part of the root of it as well, which is, which is storytelling. Taking a subject and really diving into it deeply, and telling a story, so people will listen, or watch if it's video, but mostly listening. Right now we're actually in the midst of talking, I’m in the midst of working on an idea, we’re pulling back and just doing one major piece a month. And each one will tell a story. Whether right now it's working on a piece on voting rights and the future of democracy. And we just did a piece on Appalachia, with organizers and white organizers in Appalachia. And so it's kind of telling those stories, which is where we're probably most interested in now, which is really diving in some depth, but producing it creatively, you know, with music and sound and kind of really making it interesting for people to want to hear. Because that's what we're getting in our media now, it's not the same as it used to be. Media used to be click on a dial and listen. But I bet you most of you in our little group here this morning, probably listen to podcasts, listen to whatever you want to listen to. What's happening, you're watching or listening, you just pick out what you want to see. You don't necessarily turn on a television set and say, “Oh, I think I'll watch this news story tonight.” People go out and look for things. So you got to change with the technology and the times, and I think that right now, media, you have to produce things that grab people's attention and make them want to watch or listen or read. And I think that's where we're going with it now. I may be old, but I'm not done. DCA: And I think that's a perfect segue into the next question, which is like, what influence do you think the development of social media has had in the portrayal, as well as audience reception of, like, injustices that we've seen? MS: Well, I mean, that's, again, a complex question with a complex answer. I think that it's changed the entire landscape of how we get our news and how we perceive the world. And a couple of examples. I mean, I think that, first of all, I think the negative aspect is that I think it's divided us even more. Because we narrowly look at what we want to look at. And can do that, and we do that, because it's a natural thing to do. On the other hand, I think that it has changed the entire dynamic of certain discussions or brought things to the fore that were never there before. As example, I mean, I think when you look at the police, social media, and the ability to use these little things that we have here, to send messages, to take videos, to take recordings, has changed everything. I mean, it has put, police have always beaten people up. That's nothing new. Police brutality has been going on forever, especially in poor communities, especially in Black communities, especially in Indigenous communities, Mexican American communities, it's been going on forever. But unless you live in those communities, you didn't see it. So Officer Friendly, was who you thought about as a police officer if you weren't in those communities. This, social media [points to cell-phone], I'm pointing to the phone here, has changed it all. Now it's in your face. Now you have to address it. There's a reason why, this is the part of the reason why millions and millions, literally tens of millions of people hit the streets after George Floyd was because of social media. Because people saw things they’ve never saw before. Because they saw a man dying in the street, with a police officer with his knee on his neck, literally choking the life out of a man on the street. Those things when people witness them, changes them. And so I think that social media, you know, I mean, it changed everything. And I think that it has, like everything else, it's positive and negative aspects. You can't have one without the other. It's just the nature of existence. So social media has just changed everything. I mean, it changes the way we report, changes how people feel and see things. People who never even thought they would be affected by police brutality, were affected by those kind of tapes, and not just that one, but that one happened to be the one that really seemed to grab America. And yes, social media changes everything. I mean, your generation has a real job ahead of it, especially the people who are involved in social media, and how it's utilized and how it's built, and what you do with it. It's just, the definitions of what social media will and can do are just beginning. And will have a profound, I think, effect on everything. DCA: Wow that, yeah. I guess in your own work, how does, like, how does social media also affect what you do? And, like, what stories, does it affect what stories you go after, or not so much? MS: I don't know if it affects the stories I go after, but it allows me to do things I couldn't do before. I mean, I think that for me, coming out of public radio, in the last almost thirty years, until you said that I didn’t realize how long I've been doing this. Have mercy, but anyways, so it's, the interesting part for me is that when you're working in this medium, you can tell, you can bring sound to life. You can use things to amplify the story. And that kind of stuff is really intriguing to me, being able to do that. And my two mediums are mostly audio and the printed word. I've done a bunch of video but that's not, most of my work has been in audio not video when it comes to that kind of medium. Because no, it hasn't changed the stories I want to do, but it's changed my approach to how I produce the stories. Yeah, I think that's what I'd say. DCA: Okay, and then you already talked about, like, the overall, like, influences and inspirations in your work. But was there anything in, like, anything specific or in particular that, like, inspired you to create and share stories, like in the “Maryland Civil Rights” special series that you did, or “The World That Brought Us Freddie Gray” series? MS: Well, I mean, Freddie Gray. That just made me think of about ten different things, because that was such a very heavy time in the streets here in Baltimore, but no, I mean, I think everything that you do, is a kind of a sum of your life, a sum of what you've been experienced, of what you've experienced, what you've been exposed to. And so, for me, it's, my entire life has been about, in part, been about fighting for justice, racial justice, social justice, economic justice, I mean, political justice. And so, I mean, it's always informed my work, and I can't imagine it any other way. I mean, it's who I am. And so it, no, it doesn't change, it’s not like it’s changed, I just want to get deeper into it. I mean I think what's changed maybe is that my sense of what you include is different. I haven’t thought about this a lot. But I mean, I have actually thought about it. But I mean, like this example, my next door neighbor, I live out in the country now, which is nothing I expected to be doing again, but I live out here. And the guy just in the house down from me, he is a Vietnam vet. And he's for Trump. And he knows who I am. And he knows what I stand for. And he knows that I have a multiracial family. And so, and within all that, he still loves me, and would do anything for me. And I would do anything for him. And so what that does is, make me realize, again, that the work you do is about changing hearts and minds. And that our duty is to produce things that everybody might want to hear and listen to, or watch or read, depending on what your medium is. That really affects how you think. I mean I think that that's, you know, that goes back to the very roots of journalism really, in some ways. There was people like Edward R. Murrow, when he did stories back in the late, in the fifties, late forties and fifties, and sixties, produced things that changed how America perceived itself. That's our job. And clearly, I bring my own point of view to it, but that's our job. And so if I can affect people like my next door neighbor, that's what I want to do. I want to change hearts and minds. I want people to wrestle with what reality they face. And I think that really is our job. That's the bottom line of our work. Which is why you might hear me disparage Donald Trump and overt racist assholes that are out there and go after him. I mean, but I don't belittle people because of what they say, or their ideas. I try to work to confront it, question it and bring it into light and conversation. Because that's what I think our job is. That to me is the true nature of objectivity. Because we're all subjective. So, but I think that that's our job, changing hearts. That's my job anyway, changing hearts and minds. DCA: That's awesome. So, is there, like, a story or interview that you have conducted from the “Maryland Civil Rights” series, “Just Words”, “The World That Brought Us Freddie Gray”, or any of your other projects that, like, resonate with you, like, still to this day? MS: Hm, that's a really hard question. Because, you know, it's one of those things that, you know, what's your favorite? What's the best? I have always had a hard time with that. I can't, to cross that out for me is really difficult. I mean, I, you know, it's like, you ask me which one is your favorite kid? I don't have a favorite kid. I love all my kids. You know, I mean, yeah, I don't know how to answer. I can't answer that, really. I mean, I, there's so many things that I really enjoyed doing. And so many of the things I've done have really changed my own perception about life. So you know, that's one of the things that I think that doing this kind of work is, it hasn't been just transformative I hope for the people that watch or listen to it or read it. But it's been transformative for me. I mean, I, it's made me less ideological. I mean, I can't think of a single thing. I mean, there's so many of them. So many of them. There's just so many of them. I just, I don’t know, I'm sorry. I don’t know how to answer that question. I can't come up with a single one. No. DCA: It's okay. Yeah, like, I listened to the whole, like, I listened to a few of your different, like, series and episodes, and they're all very interesting stories. So like, yeah, I also don't know where to begin on, like, which one, like, because they all I feel like resonate, for a different reason. They're all very intimate stories. So to pick one that, like, sticks with you for a long time, it's, like, hard because in a way they all do, just for different reasons. MS: And I think that I'm glad you said the word intimate, because that's what you try for, you know, is to make that, what you produce as an intimate experience, and people actually want to hear it and be part of it. And I think that I mean, you know, when the Just Words series appeared as the stories of working people in Baltimore, I mean, there was so much there. There's this, human resilience comes through so strong for me, and those kinds of things. You know, there's so much beauty out there, amidst the pain, that I think that's something that I think about a lot. You know, you can't, again, I believe in dialectic, so you can't, I don't think you can have one without the other. They all go together as part of life. Whether you're a Buddhist or a Marxist dialectics is real. It just is there. And yeah, so I know I've been inspired by lots. I mean stories we did on Rose and Ashland. Where the community came together to face down drug gangs, to me was a profound experience. You know, I mean, one of the things that people don't realize is inner city communities have to face two gangs. They have to face the guys on the corner, and they got to face the men and women in blue. And they're both gangs. I think that's, there are all kinds of things like that, that come, you know, that pop up in my head, as I think about stories I've done. But yeah, there's just a dozen things I could say, but we don't have the time. DCA: Yeah. And then, it has been over fifty years since the marked beginning of the Civil Rights Movement. Why do you think we are still seeing the same issues in our country to this day, and in the Baltimore community in particular? MS: Hm. Fifty, has it been fifty years? Probably even more even. But, maybe close to sixty. But I think that, well you know, it's an interesting question. I mean, I think some things are the same, and some things are very different. And by that, I mean, that racism is in the DNA of society, it's in the marrow of society. If you think about this, antisemitism and racism, antisemitism is maybe seventeen, 1800 years old. Modern day racism is maybe six, 700 years old. By that, I mean, and think about how both those things permeate society, permeate our conscious and unconscious thinking, are part of how we view the world, even if we don't know, it's part of how we view the world. And so getting rid of that, getting rid of the racist yoke in this country, in this world is not gonna happen overnight. And it has changed a lot. I mean, it has and it hasn't. So it's, the world of your grandparents and great grandparents, because I’m probably old enough to be yall’s grandfather. As weird as that is, for me, but I am. To grow up in a world that was segregated is not the same as growing up in the world we have now, where it was legal. To grow up in a world where you could, black folks, let's talk about black folks for a moment, black folks are still being killed by police and brutalized by police and things, and all that's real. But then, it was done with impunity. People were lynched. Here in the state of Maryland. People were lynched across the country. Nobody did shit about it. Nobody cared about it. Nobody stopped it. And so while we're in a world of Freddie Gray's and George Floyd's, it is a different world, because now millions of people are standing up and saying, no, it has to end. That's a huge difference. So a horrendous part of what we face today that's different than what we face then, I think, in part, there's a number of levels to this. One is, as I wrote about and did pieces about, desegregation, the end of segregation, met deindustrialization, and in the process, millions and millions and millions of folks, especially in the black world, were left behind in what I call dystopian communities. Were left behind in communities with no jobs, low pay, no grocery stores, boarded up homes, no rec centers, schools that are falling apart, schools that don't care or understand the depth of what people have to live through. That's the difference between now and then, in my mind, that's one of the major differences. And I think that that's something we have to confront, and not just blaming people for their own conditions that people didn't create on their own. So that's one way I think things are very different. The street corner today is much more dangerous than the street corner of yesterday. That's the difference. A huge difference. Much more dangerous. When I was coming up, there were no guns on the corner. There were a few, but nobody carried guns, nobody got blown away. We're living in a world where the racist and classist nature of this society has left tens of millions of Americans behind. I think that's a huge difference, part of it. The other part is, to me, is that racism permeates human consciousness, it permeates the society. And so the difference now is that while it still affects, the negative affects a lot of people, people are more aware of it now than ever before. People are willing to wrestle with it more than ever before. The battle is intensifying. That's what's happening in America now. If you think about America now, we're like, I don't know how much you’ve studied American history, but after the Civil War, we had Reconstruction. The Reconstruction, I always say, was the greatest experiment in a multiracial democracy that ever occurred in this country. And it was killed by racism, it was killed by Redemptions, Democrats from the South, who were the former Confederates, in alignment with modern Republicans, would haze into office and kill Reconstruction and began, literally, began after 1877, a war of terror on the black world, on through the 1960s, literal terror. And I think that we are facing the same moment now. Where those similar forces in a twenty-first century redux, a twenty-first century form, are what we are confronting, we are at a precipice. We can either move forward with everything we fought for, or we can lose it all. And those fools that took over the capital, are the people I'm talking about, and there's millions and millions and millions of them. So while things may be different, racism is still deep. And it's still destroying our society and eating it out from the inside. And I think that we are on a precipice, we are on a real precipice. I'm not necessarily feeling negative about it, because you have to keep fighting. And I think we have, you know, I think that we have a very bright future. But I just think that the difference is that we are now facing a major pushback that's been building for the last forty years in America, fifty years in America. And it’s come to a point where it's got huge power. So that to me, is a difference. You know, we're in a time of great hope and possibilities, and we’re in a time of the exact opposite. So yeah, that's what I think that's the complex difference between then and now. DCA: Yeah, you touched upon, like, a lot of complex themes, and it's like, today is very different from back then in both good and bad ways. So like, I guess, in regard to racial justice, like how would you define progress? MS: Well, that's a really hard question. I mean, that's a really hard question. I mean, what is progress? I mean, alright, you all are at UMBC. The man who's the president of the University is a good friend of mine, Freeman Hrabowski. And Freeman was one of the kids, as you all probably know, that marched in Birmingham, Alabama, part of the children's crusade. He's now president of the university. He's now president of a university that is one of the most multiracial institutions in the state. And because of him and the work he believed in, he made sure that young black scholars, young black people would become scholars in that institution and create a different life. And I say that because that was part, what's happening at UMBC is an outgrowth of the struggles that came before it, came before you all. It doesn't mean it's over, by a longshot. But it does mean that it's an inspiration for the continuing battle to combat racism in America. And so racism is as deep as it ever was. But also, things have changed. They both exist. And I think that what we are beginning to understand in society, which we did not understand fifty years ago, at least we didn't talk about it fifty years ago, is the depth of it, is the corrosiveness of racism, is how it is in everywhere you look you see it and understanding that it envelops our society. Now we're beginning to understand that. That to me is part of the next phases of the struggle, is ending that, combined with ending the dystopian poverty that people of color, a portion of people of color, find themselves in in this society. I think that those are the next, those are the battlegrounds that we're facing now. So that's the next phase of the struggle. It's not over. But I think that people, I think we make a mistake saying nothing has changed, because that negates everything that people fought for for the last 400 years. That negates the abolitionist movement that negates the people who were enslaved, who fled and fought against it. That negates what Thurgood Marshall and everybody else did in the 1930s, forties, and fifties. That negates the struggles of people from the Panthers to this Civil Rights Movement. You know, that negates the struggles of your parents. That negates your own struggles. Things have changed. They haven't changed enough, we still have a fight to wage, but things have changed. And we now have the next level of struggle to deal with the depth of racism in America, and to end it and change it in the next generation or so. If we can. So I think that, you know, people do think, there's an argument people make about things not changing. I don't think things are static, I think things have changed. And now we're, that's why we're facing the opposition we're facing because of the changes that happen in America that puts so many black folks and the people of color, in positions of power and positions of being able to define society in ways that couldn't happen before, and there's a pushback going on, because of racism. So that's the battle we're finding ourselves in now. And so the fighting ain’t over, it’s just taking a different form. You know, and you'll be battling it for most of your lives one level or another. That's for damn sure. Knowing this place, but I think that there was so much progress, that it gives me hope that we can ultimately win this. I think you're a great generation, I love this generation. I really do. DCA: Thank you, bringing it back to your own work, what will it look like when you have accomplished what you are working for in Baltimore? MS: I might be dead by that point, I don't know. Well right now, I'm actually working on a large piece about the future of Baltimore. I'm not sure where it's gonna appear yet. I'm working with a couple of people, from different newspapers and journals and other places. But, and I'm wrestling with exactly that question in this piece I'm working on. And I think that we have to really take the long view. By that, I mean, I have a young daughter who is closer to your age, who’s twenty-four, and she's part of the Abolish the Police movement. And we have these long discussions about that together. And so one of the things I'm arguing in this piece is that transforming our criminal justice budget, transforming the way we do policing, transforming the way we deal with crime, transforming the way we deal with violence, in a way that is different than just arresting people and putting them in prison is part of a short-term solution. It's not the long-term solution. But it's an important part. I mean, when I worked in the prisons, one thing I've realized is that eighty-five percent of the men I worked with inside the joint should never be in prison. And there's some crazy people out there that need to be put somewhere else, because everyone lost their minds for lots of reasons. But I mean, I think that, but that is part of the short-term. The long-term part of it is that we have to think about what ends this and how you get full participation. And part of it is, I'm writing about proposing that if any money is spent in this city to develop any part of this city, or any part of the metropolitan area, it has to directly affect the lives of the poorest people in the black community, the city or shouldn't be done. As jobs and putting people to work, and building community. I think that is really critical. And I think we have to think of how we want the city to look. And I'll give you a couple of crazy ideas that I've been working on with this thing. One is that, so there's professor's of Morgan State University School of Architecture, came up with this plan that, it is connected to this question, but in an odd way, not really in an odd way, but in a way that you wouldn't think. So Baltimore's on a delta, we live on a delta, like the delta in Mississippi, New Orleans, whatever, we're on a delta. And all the rivers of Baltimore have been paved over, for the most part. Central Avenue was a river, from Northeast Baltimore, all the way down to the harbor. Jones Falls is a river. And so their idea was to unearth the rivers, unearth, and this might sound crazy, but I don't think it is, is unearthing the rivers and letting them flow, and building whole communities and a world around those rivers. In our city. It might sound insane, and it would take twenty odd years to do, but thinking of how we rebuild the city, and putting the people in the city to work to rebuild it creates stability, creates families, at the same time you're confronting and changing the entire police system. You can't do one without the other. Because people have to have lives. I mean, look it's, you know, that part of what we face in the poorest communities of Baltimore. I mean, it is so glaring to me when I think about families that grew up in segregation. How I’ma put this, because it sounds weird if I say it some weird way, but it's, when I was a kid in the fifties and sixties, and almost every family in Baltimore had a father, mother and families all living in one house. There was stability, because there were jobs. Segregation sucked. Racism had to be fought, all that's true. But I'm saying that within that people had lives, they lived together as families and community. That was destroyed. In our inner cities, it created this kind of way, this cycle of violence, which is the same wherever you go on the planet Earth, when in poor communities, people eat each other alive, because that's the world they're stuck in. So you have to have the short-term solutions, you also have to have long-term solutions about doing things that rebuild community and put people to work rebuilding that community. So you have a future. So the children, grandchildren, great grandchildren have a future, and a process for fighting racism and class oppression at the same time. So there are ideas like that. I mean, there's tons of ideas around that, that we have to, that can change the nature of the city over the next twenty years. So by the time you all are in your forties, you're living in a very different place than you are now. That's what you have to think like, you have to think about what's the short-term solution to get us out of the madness we're in, but what's the long-term solution to make it work forever, well, to make it work in the long-term. I don’t know about forever. But in the long-term. And I think that that's something we really have to do is think about our futures. The piece I'm working on has to do with what the future of Baltimore could look like, and where we have to invest some money to make it happen. I mean, instead of investing in police, we should be investing in our school system. You know, I mean, the school should be alive twenty-four-seven. They should be open at night as adult education centers, as education centers, they should be open as rec centers, they should be open twenty-four-seven, they should be the heart of the community. And we need to have wraparound services inside of our schools, because our kids, especially from the poorest circumstances, they need that, they have to have it, if we're serious about it. I mean, if you are, if you are wealthy, if you have money, and your kid is going through changes, what do you do? You write a check and send them to a shrink, you write a check and send them to a summer experience, you write a check and help them out of what they're into. So we have to do the same thing for all of our kids in the city. In terms of building a world where they can be successful, which they can. You know, so I think that we just, so we have to think about the future and what the future could hold and what it could be, in terms of, as part of the solution when we're looking at this stuff, and not just the short-term stuff. So that's why you know, I've been working on that a lot. Hopefully that will be up by the Fall, we’ll see. DCA: Are you allowed to talk more about the project you're working on? Like, is it gonna be like, I guess, sort of like a podcast thing? Or is it gonna be primarily, like, written? MS: I'm not sure yet. I'm writing it now. You know, researching, writing, interviewing a lot of people, getting ideas from all over the city, all over the country. You know, so I'm not sure what form it'll take. Maybe it'll be multimedia form, maybe a combination of print and a kind of a podcast. I'm not, that's what I'm trying, I'm working on that now. And it probably will be a combination of the two. And it's, you know, like all across the country right now, there's a huge article in the New York Times just the other week about how so many cities are tearing down highways inside the city. And it's something I've been saying for a long time Baltimore should consider, I mean, whether it's the highway to nowhere that should just be blown up and destroyed. You all know what I'm talking about right? From the place right by the University of Maryland over to Edmondson Avenue. That end, or the Jones Falls Expressway. I mean, we have to rethink how we do things. So I think that, so I can see it as both. I can see it both as an audio podcast, and as a print piece together. And when I write, that's how I'm thinking about it. But we'll see where it ends up. DCA: Awesome. And then is there anything that we did not ask you about that you want to talk about? MS: I don't know. I guess there isn’t anything to think. I don't know. I don't think so. I mean, you didn’t ask about my children or my grandchildren. I’m just kidding. No, no, just kidding. Tell me about, you all are undergraduate students? DCA: Yes. MS: So What year are you in? The three of you? DCA: I'm going into my junior year. MS: Wow. Okay. Everyone else? Kayla Brooks (KB): I'm a senior. I'm going to be graduating in the fall. MS: All right. That's great. That's great. Lorra Toler (LT): I’m a senior as well, and I’ll be graduating in the fall as well. MS: Oh, congratulations to both of you. In the fall is because of COVID, is why it's the fall? LT: That’s just when I finish, like, my course. MS:I gotcha, I gotcha, I understand completely. I was the same way. So what are you gonna do after you graduate? Graduate school? LT: Yeah, for me, I've been looking into some PsyD programs. So I'll be probably working on applying to those by the end of the summer. MS: Very cool. That's very cool. What about you? KB: I think next fall, hopefully, I want to go to graduate school. I want to do something in, like, public history and stuff like that. MS: Oh that’s great. KB: Yeah. MS: Did you take historical studies at UMBC? KB: No, actually, I'm majoring in anthropology. And I've done a few things in, like, historical studies. So I think that's like the direction that I want to go in next. MS: Interesting. I only ask that because my youngest daughter just got a teaching assistantship and a full ride to the historical studies program at UMBC. So she may be in the fall. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool, that’s good. Well, congratulations, both of you. That's great. That’s exciting. Getting out. That's good. Now, UMBC is a good place. I like it a lot. I think it's a great, I think it's a great university. Really is. They’ve done an incredible job there. I have a lot of good friends who work there and teach there. I like it there. DCA: And then I'm gonna go ahead and just, like, open the floor to, like, Kayla and Lorra, if they have any questions to ask you if that's okay. MS: And if you don't, that's cool, too. LT: I don’t have any more questions but, I will say, like, I really enjoyed this interview. And I think you're doing a lot of great things. Raising awareness and amplifying voices in the community, so I just want to say that. MS: Thank you very much, Lorra. Appreciate that. Keep on rolling until you don't. So what will you do with all this, what's this gonna end up as? DCA: So it'll end up as, so we're gonna do like, put all the interviews into the, like, Special Collections. The interviews will be, like, kept in, mainly intact, not a lot of, like, editing done. And then, at the end of the summer, or end of the program, we're gonna do like, an integrative podcast, where we're gonna, like, interview each other and talk about our experience doing this project. MS: Very cool. I'd love to hear that when you're done. I really would like to hear that. When is this gonna be done, do you think? So it's what, by the end of the semester, or is it something that leads into the summer or? DCA: So we’ll, like, record the, like, podcast portion towards the end, but we won't do any of the actual, like, editing into creating it into a podcast. That'll be done in the fall by, like, a different group. MS: Yeah, because two of y'all will be gone. Gotcha. Oh, cool. That's great. It's been really a pleasure to meet the three of you. DCA: It's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for your time.[a] [a]Can end transcription and recording at this point b/c the remainder of the interview does not really pertain to the subject matter and themes.
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Keyword:
Black lives matter movement; Civil rights; Civil rights movement; Internet and activism; Marc; Protest movements; Public affairs radio programs; Race relations; Radio programs; Radio talk show hosts; Steiner; The Marc Steiner Show
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URL: http://server16629.contentdm.oclc.org/u?/bmoreoralhist,5
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DIGITAL SITES OF PROTEST: FARMERS’ PROTEST IN INDIA AND THE CONSTRUCTION OF A COLLECTIVE IDENTITY ON FACEBOOK
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In: AoIR Selected Papers of Internet Research; 2021: AoIR2021 ; 2162-3317 (2021)
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Maintien de l'ordre
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In: Dictionnaire des mouvements sociaux ; https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-02983821 ; Olivier Fillieule; Lilian Mathieu; Cécile Péchu. Dictionnaire des mouvements sociaux, SciencesPo Les Presses, pp.357-363, 2020, 9782724623550 ; http://www.pressesdesciencespo.fr/fr/book/?gcoi=27246100312120 (2020)
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News Media Representation of The Dakota Access Pipeline Protest (A Study Using Systemic Functional Linguistics)
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In: http://rave.ohiolink.edu/etdc/view?acc_num=kent1594292005011941 (2020)
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«ПУБЛИЧНОЕ ОСПАРИВАНИЕ» В СОВРЕМЕННЫХ УСЛОВИЯХ: ПОНЯТИЕ, ВИДЫ И ФОРМЫ ... : "PUBLIC CONTESTATION" IN CONTEMPORARY CONDITIONS: CONCEPT, TYPES AND FORMS ...
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Convocatoria de protesta del movimiento social en Chile como género discursivo
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Caricature and Egypt’s Revolution of 25 January 2011
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In: Zeithistorische Forschungen / Studies in Contemporary History ; 9 ; 1 ; 138-148 (2020)
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Poetry in Response to the “Disengagement Plan”: Identity, Poetics and Politics
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In: CLCWeb: Comparative Literature and Culture (2020)
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Tópicos y violencia verbal en la convocatoria a la marcha #NoMásDesgobierno en Colombia / Topics and verbal violence in the call to march #NoMásDesgobierno en Colombia
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In: Revista de Estudos da Linguagem, Vol 28, Iss 4, Pp 1747-1777 (2020) (2020)
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Political graffiti in May 2018 at Nanterre University: A linguistic ethnographic analysis
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In: ISSN: 0957-9265 ; Discourse and Society ; https://hal.parisnanterre.fr//hal-03110754 ; Discourse and Society, SAGE Publications, 2019, 30 (5), pp.441-464. ⟨10.1177/0957926519855788Discourse⟩ (2019)
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Zwei Wege des medialen Protests gegen das Verbot von obszöner Lexik in russischen Medien
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Spatial Sovereignties: Autonomous Subjectivity and Political Resistance in Hamburg’s Rote Flora,1989-2017
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Jones, Allison. - : University of Cambridge, 2019. : German and Dutch, 2019. : Churchill College, 2019
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Young Adults' Perceptions Of The U.S. National Anthem Protests: Examining The Role Of Form Of Expression, Empathic Concern, & Perspective-Taking
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In: Open Access Theses & Dissertations (2019)
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